What Are You Really Arguing About?

Transcript

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (00:04.866)
G’day and welcome to another episode of Relationship Revolutions. Have you ever had one of those arguments? You know the ones where halfway through you suddenly think, How the bloody hell did we get here? We started with the dishwasher, and 20 minutes later, we’re apparently discussing whether I care about you. Your mother. Something I said back in 2019.

And whether this relationship has a future or because somebody didn’t put a plate away or put it in the wrong place. So today I want to explore a fairly simple question. And that is when couples argue, what are they actually arguing about?

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (00:57.772)
Because sometimes the thing we’re arguing about isn’t really the thing we’re arguing about.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (01:08.704)
So let me talk a little bit about a warning light. Something that most relationships don’t consciously have. See, before I became the love engineer, I spent years diagnosing faults on trucks, cars, all sorts of motor vehicles. And one of the things you learn pretty quickly is that what the customer tells you is usually the simp is usually the symptom. There’s a funny noise.

is vibrating. There’s a warning light on. It loses power going uphill. And all useful information. But none of those things on their own necessarily tells me what is wrong. If I simply replace the thing that looked vaguely related to the symptom, I could waste a lot of time and money.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (02:06.166)
So you have to diagnose the fault. When did it start? When did it happen?

What’s happening immediately before it? Does anything make it better? Does anything make it worse? Has anything changed recently? You’re gathering information, trying to understand the problem before attempting to fix it. And the more I’ve worked with relationships, the more I’ve realized that it’s the same principle can be useful.

People are not machines, relationships are not trucks. But when something keeps happening, it might be worth understanding what’s causing it before we start replacing parts.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (02:59.832)
There’s the surface argument. Think about the things that many couples argue about The dishwasher, being late, not replying replying to messages Phone use money, sex, housework, children, going out with friends, who said what, who didn’t say what? The tone of voice the thermostat.

I’m fairly certain that entire relationships have nearly ended over the c correct temperature for a bedroom.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (03:38.252)
And here’s something important.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (03:43.276)
Sometimes those things really are the problem.

I don’t want to disappear down a rabbit hole where every disagreement has to be some deeply buried childhood wound. Sometimes somebody just needs to empty the blumin dishwasher.

If you’ve agreed to do something repeatedly and you don’t do it.

Then your partner might reasonably be annoyed.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (04:17.622)
If you’re consistently late, that may genuinely affect somebody.

If you’re spending money you’ve both agreed not to spend, that’s a real issue. Curiosity doesn’t mean explaining away behavior, but sometimes the intensity of our reaction tells us there’s more attached to the event. And that’s when it gets interesting.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (05:00.792)
So what happened and what did it mean? Let’s use a very ordinary example. You send your partner a message. They don’t reply. That is the event.

Just strip away everything else for a moment. You sent a message, they haven’t replied. Then something happens remarkably quickly. We give that event meaning. Maybe the meaning is they’re ignoring me. Or I’m obviously not important enough to reply to. Or something’s wrong. Or perhaps here we go again.

And that meaning creates an emotional response. Maybe it’s anxiety, maybe it’s anger, maybe it’s frustration or hurt. So now comes your response. Perhaps you send another message. Then another. Maybe hello Are you alive? Perhaps you become sarcastic.

Or you decide, fine, they can’t be bothered replying to me. I’m not replying to them. So they eventually message and so say, Sorry, I’ve just got out of a meeting. But now you’re angry, so your reply is cold. They sense something is wrong. They ask and you say nothing. Which we all know which, as we all know, occasionally.

means something other than nothing. Now they’re confused. But maybe they’ve become defensive too. Maybe they withdraw. And now we have an outcome. Distance. Except here’s what it gets really interesting.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (07:12.226)
That outcome can appear to confirm the meaning that you originally gave to the event.

See? I knew something was wrong. They don’t care, except what was their version?

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (07:33.686)
I was in a meeting and I couldn’t answer my phone. Same event. Two completely different experiences.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (07:46.456)
So event, meaning, response and outcome.

This is something I think is incredibly useful to become aware of. Something happens, that’s the event. We decide what it means. That’s the meaning.

That meaning influences what we do next, the response. And our response contributes to what happens afterwards, the outcome. Event, meaning, response, outcome. Now I am simplifying human behavior here enormously.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (08:34.658)
But it’s useful because most of us don’t consciously notice the meaning bit. It happens so quickly. We experience interpretation as though it’s simply what happened. They ignored me. Did they? Or did they just not reply in the time frame that you felt was acceptable?

Those things might be the same thing, but they might not.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (09:12.258)
She doesn’t appreciate me Maybe What’s happened that leads to you to that conclusion? He’s trying to control me possibly but what did he actually do?

There’s a really useful distinction between what happened and what I decide it meant.

Because sometimes they are identical, and sometimes there’s quite a big gap between them.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (09:50.467)
The argument beneath the argument. So let’s get back to the dishwasher. One person says could you please put your dishes in the dishwasher? The partner hears nothing I do is ever good enough for you.

Suddenly they’re defending themselves. I’ve been at work all day. I do loads around here. You left your cup cup upstairs yesterday and the person is thinking What the hell? I just asked you to put your plate in the dishwasher.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (10:29.59)
Except perhaps they’re not really arguing about the plate anymore.

One person may be experiencing I don’t feel supported.

Whilst the other is experiencing I don’t feel appreciated. And suddenly two people are arguing about two completely different things, using the same dishwasher as evidence. There are all sorts of meanings that can sit underneath the apparent mundane arguments.

You don’t value me, you don’t listen to me. I don’t matter. I can’t rely on you. You’re trying to control me. I’m doing everything. I’m going to leave. Nothing I do is ever good enough. You don’t desire me anymore. You don’t respect me. And the list goes on. And often neither person is actually saying the thing that they are experiencing. Instead, I

They argue about a plight.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (11:40.46)
So where did that meaning come from?

This is where curiosity becomes particularly important. Because once we’ve identified the meaning, there’s another question Where did that meaning come from? Maybe it came from this relationship. That’s important. If somebody is replete repeatedly lied to you and something that causes you to question whether they’re being honest, your distrust is

hasn’t appeared out of nowhere. If somebody repeatedly says they’ll do something and they don’t, I can’t rely on you might be based on some quite on quite a lot of evidence.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (12:33.346)
We shouldn’t use self awareness to gaslight ourselves out of recognizing what is actually happening. But sometimes the meaning comes from somewhere else entirely. A previous relationship, an earlier betrayal, something you learn growing up, an expectation about what a partner is supposed to do.

Perhaps an invisible rule that you’ve never actually discussed? Maybe somebody being late means I’m not important. Why? Because growing up people constantly forgot about you. Maybe a previous partner repeatedly stood you up. Or perhaps you’ve simply learned If you care about someone, you are on time. None of those explanations were

automatically makes your interpretation right or wrong. They just give us information. And that information creates understanding.

With two people there are two arguments. So let’s look at another example. Person A says you didn’t tell me what you were going to be late. What they commu may be trying to communicate is I want to know I can rely on you. But person B hears You’re irresponsible and I need to monitor you. So they respond defensively.

I’m an adult. I don’t need to report every movement to you. What does person A hear? Your feelings don’t matter to me, so they push harder. You always do this.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (14:32.28)
Person B now hears even more criticism, so they defend themselves even more strongly and go off. And off we go around the roundabout again. What’s fascinating is both people may now be protecting themselves against something the other person doesn’t entirely realise they’re discussing.

One is fighting for can I rely on you? And the other is fighting for can you trust me without controlling me? They’re having different arguments. That’s what’s simply debating the text message that was sent at six three or six seventeen, which probably isn’t gonna solve much.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (15:28.716)
And that’s why debating whether the text message was sent at six three or six seventeen probably isn’t going to resolve much.

When we start building a case that

There’s a point in many arguments where something shifts. We stop trying to understand each other. And we start trying to win. Now we’re like lawyers. I did tell you. No, you didn’t. Yes, I did. I sent you a message. That was after you were already late. No, it wasn’t. Yes it was.

Then the phones come out, the message is found, times and dates are established, evidence is submitted, and eventually there’s a victory. See? six hundred fourteen. I already told you. Brilliant, you won.

How’s your relationship doing as a result?

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (16:31.522)
Because it is entirely possible to win the factual argument and completely miss the relation relational one.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (16:49.848)
Can you prove you sent the message? You can prove you sent the message without ever discovering that your partner feels they can’t rely on you. Or you can prove that your partner was late without ever discovering that they experience your questions as controlling.

That’s why one of my favorite questions is what problem are we actually trying to solve here? Because if we don’t know, we can spend an amon enormous amount of energy trying to solve the wrong one.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (17:36.418)
Being right is not the same as being understood.

Now this doesn’t mean that facts don’t matter. They do.

If somebody said you did something and you didn’t do, you’re allowed to correct that.

If somebody repeatedly rewrites events, that’s important. Understanding does not require abandoning reality, but there’s a difference between establishing facts and creating understanding. Sometimes both are necessary.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (18:19.52)
Maybe I didn’t really maybe I really did tell you I’d be late. That’s the fact. But perhaps you still felt forgotten. That’s your experience.

So those two things can exist at the same time. And this is where relationships become more nuanced than who’s right. I can say I did send the message, but I can understand why you were frustrated that you didn’t know until the last minute. Nobody had to lose. We simply made room for two pieces of information.

Curiosity changes the conversation.

So what do we do with all this?

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (19:19.564)
I’m not going to give you five communication hacks. Instead, I’d like to give you a few questions. Next time you find yourself in an argument, or perhaps afterwards, once things have settled, become curious. What actually happened? Strip away the interpretation or the meaning. What are the facts?

What did I decide it meant?

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (19:54.946)
Did being late mean you don’t respect me?

Did the unanswered mess message mean I don’t matter?

Did the request mean I’m being controlled? Then ask Am I reacting to this event?

Or the meaning that I’ve attached to it. And perhaps what might this mean to the other person?

Not what should it mean to them, what might it actually mean? And finally, what are we really trying to resolve here?

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (20:40.792)
Those aren’t techniques for winning an argument. They’re diagnostic questions.

And none of them requires you to surrender a boundary. None of them requires you to excuse poor behavior. No one requires you to agree with your partner. Curiosity is not capitulation. It’s simply gathering more information before reaching a conclusion.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (21:15.914)
Own your part without owning everything.

There’s another reason I look at arguments this way.

There’s another reason I like looking at arguments this way. It gives us somewhere useful to look at our own impact. If the sequence is event, meaning, response, and outcome, then my response becomes something I can examine. I can’t always control the event. I certainly can’t control the other person.

But I can become more aware of the meaning that I am creating and the response that follows. Maybe I notice, I feel ignored, and I become sarcastic. That’s useful information. Or when I feel criticized, I shut down. Again, useful information. When I feel I’m losing control.

I start trying to prove my point. Again, it’s just information. It’s not about blame. It’s about recognizing the part that we play in the patterns that keep showing up.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (22:37.858)
Because if I can see my part.

I have somewhere to make a different choice. And that’s far far more useful than deciding that they are the problem.

So in closing

What are you really arguing about? Maybe it is the dishwasher. Sometimes a plate is just a plate.

But maybe the dishwasher has come to r represent I don’t feel appreciated. Maybe being late has become I can’t rely on you. Maybe the phone has become I don’t feel important. Maybe the disagreement about money is really I don’t feel safe.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (23:33.846)
Maybe the argument about sex is actually I don’t feel wanted.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (23:42.038)
You know, you won’t know unless you become curious.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (23:51.448)
When I was fixing trucks, if I repaired the symptom without understanding what caused it, there was a fair chance I’d be seeing that truck again. Relationships aren’t trucks, obviously. Although occasionally both make some very worrying noises. But I still think the principle has some value. Before you rush to fix the argument.

It might be worth understanding what the argument is actually about. So the question I’d like to leave you with as a takeaway this week is what happened and what did I decide that it meant?

Just notice the difference because sometimes the dishwasher really is just the dishwasher.

And sometimes it’s carrying a hell of a lot more than dirty plates.

Alan Watts – The Love Engineer (25:00.032)
If today’s conversation has helped you, if today’s conversation has helped one thing make a little more sense, then we’ve achieved exactly what relationship revolutions is here to do. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of each other. And if this has episode has been useful for you, please share it with your friends and family and anyone else who may benefit from hearing it.